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posted by: PastorDave (reply) post date: 03.11.06 (10:28 am) A great writer, I would think, does not know why he/she is great. He just writes because he must. He's not necessarily a genius, nor a teacher, just a writer. But what do I know? I write church newsletter articles and I blog. Oh, and I read a book sometimes. But I know a great writer when I read his book. posted by: Fairmoon (reply) post date: 03.12.06 (11:26 am) i try to avoid the types of books you mentioned, nothing crushes my spirit of writting more. Yet, every so often i find one that is inspiring, is worth reading and I pick up this shiny silver covered book every summer, just before the three day novel contest. it's the War of Art by Steven Pressfield. it isn't trying to teach you how to write, but rather it challenges you to write regardless of ruts, museless days and frustration. I love it. and the cover is shiny! FM posted by: tabootenente (reply) post date: 03.13.06 (1:51 am) fmoon, i've never read this one. but it sounds like a motivator rather than a discouraging word. that's one of the reasons that my favorite of this sort of book is the last one i listed, by stephen koch. he tells a story that took place maybe five or six years into his teaching career. he had a habit--and if you've ever taken a relatively serious writing course before you've probably witnessed this exact same habit--of spending a full class early on in a semester, explaining to the students why they should be studying something else. because, after all, there are tons of reasons for students not to study writing: maybe writing can't be taught; maybe most people aren't capable of being good writers; maybe, even if one student becomes nearly good enough to be a writer, then he or she will never make a living writing; and maybe the professor wants to make it abundandly clear that he or she does not expect the students to ever achieve a level of satisfactory writing that this professor considers to be literature-quality. anyway, stephen koch was in the habit of making this sort of speech early in his professorship. and then one year, after delivering his sermon, a student came to his office after class and said "everyone in the whole world is already against us, when we write. our families and friends make us feel embarrassed to be studying writing--even when they act supportive, you know they don't understand. fellow writers are too competitve to be supportive. publishers and editors refuse to look at our manuscripts. even readers no longer read fiction--they television. so we don't need any more discouragement from YOU. if any of us had enough brains to have avoided writing classes by now, we wouldnt be here. so instead of telling us the same thing we always hear, that we cant do this, why don't you tell us what we're paying you for--tell us how we CAN do this." well, i'm working my way through my MFA program, dealing with professors of various interests and philosophies--but i'm still begging for some professor who has already learned this lesson. stephen koch's book is one of the best: you feel like there's a human being on the other end of the typewriter--one who also understands why, after decades of discouragement from the world, he still does what he does. taboo posted by: tabootenente (reply) post date: 03.13.06 (2:12 am) dave, "A great writer, I would think, does not know why he/she is great. He just writes because he must." in many ways i agree with you. i think a writer must be obsessed--or else, as i said in response to fairmoon, the sane human being would have found gainful employment doing something else long ago. too many people have too many reasons for us not to write, for the sane person to survive as a writer. i also think that a great writer never knows that he or she is great--but each writer knows that he or she is capable- has the talent to produce greatness. every artist needs to believe this (or so i believe). otherwise, why go through all the pain and loneliness? in The Art Spirit, robert henri says something like "every artist is a man who has freed himself." this is the pleasant way of saying that the artist is alone. john gardner said he wrote for sixteen hours--every day. carver wrote 8 stories, threw seven away, then whittled down the last story until he knew whether it was worthy of being HIS story. most of the time, he threw that story away, too. hemingway felt good about a 250 word day. 250 words. michael chabon spent, as did his character grady in Wonder Boys, five years working on a manuscript and wrote 1,500 pages. instead of finishing it, he buried it in his own backyard. not only are these writers obsessed with writing, they are obsessed with the the belief that they should be producing better writing. these writers believe that they could be great. hemingway said that every great writer needs two things. the second thing is the willingness to work. the first thing, unfortunately, is talent. you can't survive as an artist without at least a little arrogance. taboo posted by: supremeanna (reply) post date: 03.14.06 (12:51 am) I think it's easier to talk about something than actually do it. Oh gee, did I say something so trite? But it's true, I suppose. posted by: tabootenente (reply) post date: 03.14.06 (2:53 am) anna, i guess devotion to quality affects the difficulty, too. anyone can talk about writing, but i've heard maybe two or three people speak competently about writing. likewise, the "doing" you're talking about can be done by anyone, so long as you're not overly worried about quality. it's the obsession, that changes everything--maybe. about writing--does it get easier to write after years and years of writing? i'm not sure, but i don't think so. i think writing will always be hard, no matter how much you do it--but after a while, if you're still willing to put in the effort, then your writing--always hard to do--will be better. taboo posted by: surrogate (reply) post date: 03.14.06 (3:28 am) Wow... thought I came here yesterday! I have a trade I make my living doing. It's not a great trade or anything, but it pays the bills. Over the years, I've trained a half-dozen people to do what I do. I've come to believe I'm pretty good at what I do. Part of this confidence comes from NOT attempting to do that which I know I don't have the talent for, even though it's within the parameters of what most folks would consider to be at least "part" of my trade. I'll take risks, but only small ones and it's worked out well for a long long time. Why this last paragraph? One of the things that used to drive me crazy when instructing an apprentice was all their questions, asked earnestly but too soon, so that the answers were often meaningless because there hadn't been a context/structure apparatus (simple experience) set in place for them against which the answers to their questions might be useful to them. The last few folks I taught, I handled differently. Right from the start, I asked them to do two things. I asked them to simply do exactly what I told them to do each day, and to write down any questions they might have about the "whys" of things, and that after three months, we'd spend as much time as they liked talking about about them. It was magic. As they gained experience, almost every "why" would become apparent to them, and be something they discovered on their own. I can't tell you how many times I'd look over and see one of my "students" laughing only to find out that a question that had been eating them for a while had just been, to their delight, answered by the process itself. So it is with books on writing. I'd think that reading them too soon wouldn't be useful or helpful assuming there have been some bare-bones rules instilled by either schooling or the continual reading of the work of good writers. Maybe the correlation doesn't work. Oh well. posted by: tabootenente (reply) post date: 03.14.06 (4:40 am) i think your analogy is straight to the point. all rookies have questions--the problem happens when those rookies become obsessed with the wrong (or at least ill-timed) questions. the amateur without a master is in trouble. as i discovered with my old obsession with t.s. eliot's Prufrock, an amateur who believes he understands the work of a master will have to break that addiction before his own work can mature. so i agree: these writers on writing books are dangerous when they sit uncatalogued upon the shelf. if an innocent picked "the art of fiction" by john gardner from the bookcase, he would find himself quickly damned. if he picked browne and king's wreck of a book, we'd lose yet another young writer to the power of the dark side. but the writer who picks up one of hemingway's nonfiction works, like A Moveable Feast, will find something simple yet complex, something compelling, requiring answers to uncertain questions. the best writing on writing books--at least, for the aspiring writer--are helping to clarify what the correct questions are, rather than the answers. that feeling you described, the feeling of "AHA!" experienced by your apprentices when they discover why their questions needed to wait, is the only "real" thing these books can do for a writer--the books help you ask the correct, timely questions, they help you understand that the most masterful of all writers had to be patient, and that all writers have to work hard. incidentally, you've mentioned in several places this trade you know--but you always avoid giving the trade a name. why? taboo posted by: surrogate (reply) post date: 03.14.06 (6:41 am) Reply to: tabootenente Why? Because being a con artist is illegal, of course! I specialize in short cons... variations on the pigeon drop and Royal Nigerian Booty scam, mostly. (got cha.) posted by: tabootenente (reply) post date: 03.14.06 (6:49 am) you rock, surrogate - two points for your side! taboo |
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